Curse

coil · Mar 30, 2009, 11:23 PM // 23:23

This weekend reminded me why i dont play fake pvp anymore. got my 100k and quit.

Trinity Fire Angel · Mar 30, 2009, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

The ratio will probably restore itself in a week or two.

Still, I've found I do better now playing shutdown mesmer, either spamming [diversion] or [arcane languor]. [Visions of Regret] doesn't work, one time I spent 5 minutes in a battle with 3 monks dumb enough to ball up and all get VoRd at once, they just keep spamming heals on gunther till they are dead and got up in 5 seconds and did it again. You need actual shutdown on monks not just damage, better if it is shutdown that lasts through respawns.

i find [Arcane Conundrum] with [Power Block] to be a nice combination. i also liked using [Tease] [Leech signet] and [power drain] for the weekend to shut down monks and other casters on the kurzick side.

however, people have to realise that [Visions of Regret] and [Backfire] do not work on smart monks. Even [Diversion] wont work if you have played monk long enough... [Shame] would have to be a better skill in many cases because you can;t hear it coming.... at least diversion has a very unique sound that makes you stop and go..... HOLD ON>>>> let me just click this [holy veil] icon here...

Giga_Gaia · Mar 30, 2009, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Upier, you can theory-craft about "team builds" all day long and come up with the most awesome scenario, but at the end of the day (or what this weekend just showed us), this is just not the case. Over the course of many matches, the win/loss ratio evens itself out relatively well. That was the whole point of my thread so please stop turning this into a theory crafting debate when I am trying to see some statistics from others to show that this arena is not as bad as the QQers say when there are some good competition from both sides, okay?

byteme! · Mar 31, 2009, 12:36 AM // 00:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

And I am seriously asking this, because if the Kurzicks start playing to win, without knowing the bar in question - I don't see how the Luxons can ever win again.

Stop theory crafting. There are people in THIS THREAD who have first hand experience and they are saying out loud that, "YOU ARE WRONG". Despite what you think, Luxons are winning their fair share. Don't let your own experiences cloud your judgement. Go ahead craft some more theories.

Copenhagen Master · Mar 31, 2009, 01:01 AM // 01:01

I played all weekend and I rather enjoyed it ran into 2 bots. Compared to there are usually dozen or so I play with and also hardly any leechers. Made the game more enjoyable (with people that knew what they were doing) :P Win/ lose percentage was about 50/50 but enough I finally maxed my Luxon title and got my GWAMM. Now to debating doing Kurz side or work on HA :P

Dark-NighT · Mar 31, 2009, 01:38 AM // 01:38

I had a blast monking FA for kurzick side, even though im luxon based, defending FA is just so nice when with a good team on both sides, i had a couple of matches where i was healing Master Architect Gunther for my life, and that payed off most of the time. Holding the mobs back was great fun.

Khazad Guard · Mar 31, 2009, 07:21 AM // 07:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Gank/split mesmers like VoR or Lyssa's don't need it. I'd be happy with backfire if monks couldn't respawn in 5 seconds. Then again alot of people don't even notice the hex and spam through it, so it's unusually effective in FA.

When I get Backfired I usually just cast through it knowing that I can kill them before the Backfire gets me. Given that I respawn in mere seconds within a few steps of the fighting whilst the opponent needs to run from the Amber shrine or their base, dying isnt really a problem

Another thing people tend to look over is me "suiciding" (often been blamed for it). If I'm low on health, out of energy or just need a way to eleviate (sp?) pressure I just run around and gather the minions/Warrior NPCs. Sadly enough you can always drag a few players away from where the real fight should be so giving the rest of the team that extra time is worth the +1 on my /deaths counter.

upier · Mar 31, 2009, 08:22 AM // 08:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by byteme!

Stop theory crafting. There are people in THIS THREAD who have first hand experience and they are saying out loud that, "YOU ARE WRONG". Despite what you think, Luxons are winning their fair share. Don't let your own experiences cloud your judgement. Go ahead craft some more theories.

This:

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

The only reason why Luxons win is because the Kurzick suck.
Because when they stop sucking - it becomes impossible to win.

If you guys wanted to win each game, you'd be able to do so.
You currently do not want that.

Gun Pierson · Mar 31, 2009, 10:52 AM // 10:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

This:

If you guys wanted to win each game, you'd be able to do so.
You currently do not want that.

lol wut? If luxon monks would use heal/prot bars in FA and heal/prot their turtles instead of ray some empty space, luxons can steamroll the place in half the time.

The turtles strip enchantments, just advance with them and blast everything away including Gunther, his two assistents and the player monks.

In the quiet words of the holy virgin Mary: 'Please come again'.

makosi · Mar 31, 2009, 10:58 AM // 10:58

There are more leech bots now than there were before the weekend. It seems that people have caught on to the idea of abusing the system for free faction with no infractions.

ZenRgy · Mar 31, 2009, 11:33 AM // 11:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trinity Fire Angel

however, people have to realise that [Visions of Regret] and [Backfire] do not work on smart monks. Even [Diversion] wont work if you have played monk long enough... [Shame] would have to be a better skill in many cases because you can;t hear it coming.... at least diversion has a very unique sound that makes you stop and go..... HOLD ON>>>> let me just click this [holy veil] icon here...

sup [drain enchantment]

Shame and Diversion are still useful, regardless of whether you cast through them or not - if you choose to, you lose energy/lose a skill. If you don't, you are shut down giving your team a window to make the kill.

upier · Mar 31, 2009, 11:46 AM // 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

lol wut? If luxon monks would use heal/prot bars in FA and heal/prot their turtles instead of ray some empty space, luxons can steamroll the place in half the time.

The turtles strip enchantments, just advance with them and blast everything away including Gunther, his two assistents and the 2-3 player monks.

In the quiet words of the holy virgin Mary: 'Please come again'.

Role 1:
Heal/Prot monk.
Role 2:
Obscene amount of damage, possibly also Profane.

That's at least 2 roles that need to be filled in a random format.
And a team like that does have potential to win again a team of 2-3 Kurzick monks. I am fully aware of that. We did.
What I am telling you is that team wouldn't stand a chance against 8 monks.
And lucky for us - 8 monk teams don't happen because Kurzicks don't play to win.
Stupidity is currently a factor in Aspy balance. If the Kurzicks are dumb enough - then the game has the potential to be balanced where each side has the potential to win.
If not - Kurzicks win.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenRgy

sup [drain enchantment]

Shame and Diversion are still useful, regardless of whether you cast through them or not - if you choose to, you lose energy/lose a skill. If you don't, you are shut down giving your team a window to make the kill.

That's 6 secs to score a kill of a target whose identity EVERYONE knows. In a random format.
It has the potential to work against bad teams.

makosi · Mar 31, 2009, 12:28 PM // 12:28

With regards to the VoR/Backfire stacking, or other hex stacking, I found Purge Signet to be the best option if you're not running Peace and Harmony. Just try not to forget to make a low energy set and don't forget to use it.

You wouldn't believe how many times I Purged 60-100 energy removing a tonne of fire & forget hexes and conditions from my monk. And, yes, Empathy and Insidious Parasite were up there too.

If I'm hexed with Diversion I can usually stall until it naturally expires then continue healing because the monk-stomp pressure isn't there in Fort Aspenwood or Jade Quarry. Smart mesmers will follow up Diversion with Shame but Purge Signet can cleanse Shame.

Gun Pierson · Mar 31, 2009, 01:06 PM // 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

What I am telling you is that team wouldn't stand a chance against 8 monks.

A team of 8 mesmers would imo.

It's random and the Kuricks don't all play with monks and the Luxons don't all play with mesmers or another setup that can break the monks. It wouldn't take long before the Luxon side finds a way to counter.

FoxBat · Mar 31, 2009, 01:28 PM // 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

A team of 8 mesmers would imo.

Not really, 8 mesmers don't deal (significant) damage. They'll have the monks shut down, but something needs to put through actual killing power. Maybe if you catch a few monks with AoE you can go 6 mesmer - 2 damager

.

It is a fundamentally broken state of affairs that Kurzicks don't actually have to deal damage at all to win, if that was the state of GvG everyone would also run 6-8 monks and there would not be any counter strong enough. (As-is [goth] is doing disturbingly well. :/ ) But as mentioned it is fundamental therefore not easy to fix. At this point they can only balance for the kind of stupid crap people actually bring into the format on average, not on what makes sense. Just be glad no-one ever got their wish to make these into "organized" play modes, as they would become vastly more degenerate than current.

Moloch Vein · Mar 31, 2009, 01:48 PM // 13:48

upier isn't theorycrafting. He's pointing out what is actually painfully obvious.

ZenRgy · Mar 31, 2009, 01:54 PM // 13:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

That's 6 secs to score a kill of a target whose identity EVERYONE knows. In a random format.
It has the potential to work against bad teams.

Are you saying shutdown only works against bad teams?

Regardless, bad teams sums up 90% of Aspenwood.

upier · Mar 31, 2009, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenRgy

Are you saying shutdown only works against bad teams?

Nope.
What I am saying is that if the Kurzicks started running good teams - as in monks - throwing Diversion on a dude won't do a thing.
Because you'll have 7 other monks doing their job.
Even with 2 or 3 monks only it does next to nothing.
I've Diversioned a guy, Galed the next one and Blackouted the third. The window of shutdown is just too small for a random team to make use of it.

ZenRgy · Mar 31, 2009, 11:20 PM // 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Nope.
What I am saying is that if the Kurzicks started running good teams - as in monks - throwing Diversion on a dude won't do a thing.
Because you'll have 7 other monks doing their job.
Even with 2 or 3 monks only it does next to nothing.
I've Diversioned a guy, Galed the next one and Blackouted the third. The window of shutdown is just too small for a random team to make use of it.

I've been shutting down 3 monks most times, using shame - diversion and blackout, with MoR for my elite so I can spam dat.